GROW
LIVE MONSTERS
the films of Cary Loren -- interview by "Fuzz-O" Dolman
So
how old were you when you were shooting this stuff? What was
going on in your life? My first camera was a simple
8 mm my father had in the late 1950s -- it took 16 mm film that
you exposed, flipped over and then was cut -- i picked it up
when I was about 12 so that was around ‘67-- i traded
for a super 8 when i was about 15 and got more involved with
it during high-school and later in Ann Arbor...i liked the idea
of rearranging and recording my environment -- i studied classical
guitar since i was about seven and film became an outlet and
release from the stiff structure of that.
In
grade school i was hooked on afternoon movies -- Bill Kennedy
-- Rita Bell’s million dollar movie -- especially the
monster films on Shock Theater and Creature Features -- i began
a Mad Scientist club with meetings in our basement that would
consist of recreating horror and monster films -- we would resurrect
Frankenstein’s monster and do zombie plays -- we’d
construct homemade spook houses to scare kids on the block --
so there was this attraction to theater/film fairly early...all
this led to making up fantasies and filming them --
Were the films ever shown publicly? During
high school they were shown at weekend pot parties. They were
backdrops for stoner happenings -- once we screened some at
a high-school pop-art “Happening” -- this was a
class project for a progressive teacher which i helped plan
with some friends (Lynn, the future Niagara, and Maha/Colleen,
now my wife) that was 1972 and almost caused a riot -- when
the lights went out everything went wild -- people were passing
joints -- there was freeform live music -- snake dancers --costumes
-- people in masks -- things spread into the hallways -- it
was the real rock and roll high school! -- on occasion i took
films up to Ann Arbor during the 8mm film festivals and had
some screened there--
I
don’t know much about the technical aspect of film and
cinematography but I see a lot of double exposure – what
were some other techniques you used? I was a big fan
of underground cinema -- and did similar crazy stuff like painting
on frames -- scratching on emulsion -- using bleach/ vegetable
color dyes, magic markers, chemical toners, anything -- i couldn’t
afford the cost of fancy splicers so scotch tape and razor blades
were used -- I love layering film -- excessive super imposition
-- we have this capacity to process more and more visual information
and speed has something to do with it -- we follow things quicker
today with sight but with less understanding -- the layering
of film is related to this processing and chance, you never
know exactly what the effect will be -- in one sense film is
just background -- like psychedelic light shows -- they get
into your mind and behave like a drug -- they alter your mood,
or they become like a fireplace, something to gaze into.
Music
is another layer and just as important, they work together and
somehow react and enhance each other but film rarely gets deep
into your awareness. Both mediums work like a universal language
-- the world reduced to sound and sight. When speech enters
the equation it generally gets fucked up. This isn’t meant
to condemn movies with spoken word, it's just that the majority
are commercial nonsense -- the best movies are when the talking
is turned off -- i believe the silent era produced superior,
more intense films, with denser construction. Everything else
has been a commentary, like jazz riffs on early cinema.
This
is more of a musical question but it’s a pretty heavy
moment in the film – how did the song “You Can’t
Kill Kill” come about? That
was written on LSD and formed a series of songs written about
the Manson family -- they were meant to be worked into this
one film called the BLOOD OF GOD -- which mixed the serial killings
up with a UFO invasion, and Jesus as a UFO pilot -- the film
was never finished but parts appear in GROW LIVE MONSTERS near
the end.
What
is the significance of “The 9th Day” painted in
“blood”? The
9th day was an “explosion of negativity” -- in Judaism,
the 9th day of Av refers to the day both temples of Jerusalem
were destroyed -- usually a day of fasting and atonement --
9th day of Av has been this historic day of destruction; the
Spanish Inquisition, destruction of the temples and also the
day Hitler signed the papers of the final solution.... the title
referenced the blood spilled in the Nazi concentration camps,
the weird/sick Auschwitz science experiments of Josef Mengele,
and the slave labor musicians that would play as you came off
the trains and entered the crematoriums -- (blending music and
mass murder was the height of destruction / evil -- just unimaginable)
-- in the film there’s a scene where i’m vomiting
blood and stabbing a pineapple (a symbol of anarchism and bombs)
-- i also strangle myself and bang my head with the pineapple
-- total annihilation -- the 9th day is considered the day in
which the messiah will come -- so out of darkness comes light
-- the tiny white mice inside the valentine heart was a symbol
of light -- and Niagara in the role of a vampire pretends to
eat one. I was just watching that on the second anniversary
of 9/11 -- another destructo 9th...
Another
musical question, brought on by the visuals: did Niagara really
play violin during your jams? Sort of -- she would
get awful scratching sounds out of it -- there was this hour-long,
painful noise piece we did, playing along with the sci-fi classic
film THEM as background -- It's rough listening, but an almost
symphonic piece -- the violin scratching echoes the electronic
soundtrack of the giant ants -- i think the violin makes a good
visual prop.
Who
are some of the freaks in the cast? Like the guy with the Ron
Mael moustache? Or the guy in the x-ray spex sharpening a knife?
The “JEW” who is the victim of the cannibalistic
orgy? What kind of statement were you making with the “JEW”
image? Who’s the guy with the ‘fro who gets his
hand eaten? The guys in jockstraps with guns? The king w/scepter
who emerges from a coffin? His bride? The queen who is carried
on her throne? The guy in gold pants doing Iggy-type moves in
somebody’s backyard? Who are the kids making faces? Most
of the cast freaks were grade school friends from metro Detroit
or people from the Ann Arbor scene -- I don’t know if
they’d prefer to be unknown or not -- the guy playing
Hitler was Robert, a school friend who’s now a vice-president
in a large pharmaceutical company -- the guy sharpening the
knife was Gary from high school, and he died of AIDS -- the
Jew was played by Link Yako -- a player in the Ann Arbor comix
scene -- there was no “statement” other than the
film was about Auschwitz -- so i used signs to identify “the
JEW” etc... -- it was really an exaggeration, a pantomime
-- I may have just seen ILSA, SHE WOLF OF THE SS -- so it was
kind of a dialogue with the sickness of that film -- the cannibalism
was used to show the sacrificial and depraved nature of the
camps -- i was reading some magic and kabbalah stuf -f- so that
was always working in -- the afro/beatnik was David Keeps, a
grade-school friend and early manager of DAM, he became an editor
of Details magazine, a pseudo-hip fashion rag from New York
-- he produced a line of “Niagara wear” with her
images on underwear, t-shirts and coffee mugs... the guys in
jockstraps were Tim Burton and ? -- that was an early film shot
in Northern Michigan when we were about 15 -- the king (really
a wizard), was a high school friend and talented writer named
Joel Katz who also died of AIDS -- that coffin scene was shot
in my bedroom, junior year of high school -- my parents came
home unexpectedly from vacation and walked in on this wild scene
with costumed actors in bathing suits all over the house --
they took it pretty good -- the bride was the “fairy princess”
Mindy, a close friend of Joel's -- the Queen is Niagara (if
you're referring to the outdoors shot with the procession and
giant light bulbs) -- the Iggy impersonator was this tough guy
from high school -- Dave Waite -- i did a film with him in my
parents basement called ELMO THE GEEK that’s lost somewhere...
the kids making faces are either my delinquent relatives or
neighborhood kids...
Where
was the mermaid vs. lobster monster scene filmed? Lake Ontario?
Is the mask that one character wears a tribute to the cover
of Trout Mask Replica? I like the passers by, like
the three jogging he-men – they look like they’re
running straight out of television commercial! Was it a popular
beach? Did you get any reaction? The
mermaid/giant lobster scene was filmed on Miami Beach -- we
decided to drive down and make this lobster film -- the mask
was made by Jim Shaw -- and was a close replica of the Captain
Beefheart Trout Mask. Miami Beach was pretty crowded -- people
would just stroll by as we filmed, or they’d look and
keep going -- Niagara had band-aids taped to her nipples and
somehow glued flower petals over that -- she could only move
her feet an inch in the mermaid costume -- she also dyed her
hair this bright pink fuchsia color -- it was quite a site,
and i wanted to film just before sunset, to get that rich “golden
look.”
Where’d
you get that great Iggy footage? Personal archives? I
think that came from a Stooges performance at Ford Auditorium,
Detroit in the early 70s -- it was incredibly low light and
luckily some came out --
Did you film kids leaving a high school? Compared to
the 80s and 90s I grew up in, they ALL look like freaks and
hippies! i
filmed in the Berkley high school parking lot 1971-73 -- everyone
hung out there and smoked pot -- you were either a freak or
a jock -- things changed pretty quickly (for the worse) after
'73 -- that was a short clip taken from a much longer high school
film.
What
was it about 1973? A couple things: I started to notice
how the pleasurable and psychedelic drugs like pot and acid
were being replaced by downers, animal tranqs, and chic drugs
like cocaine -- disco rock and bad arena rock had also begun
to take over the popular music scene -- freeform radio was on
its last legs -- media was now firmly in control of commercial
hucksters, and this trend seems to have continued, although
there are blips of zines, DIY labels, and internet sites like
Blastitude which have made inroads...DAM and punk rock were
one reaction to the MOR format...
Did
you do the skeleton/cowgirl animation? Most of the
animations were done at my parents' house during high school.
The black and white/hand colored sequence with the skeleton,
George Washington and the Witch (no cowgirl) was done in b/w
16 mm in Ann Arbor.
Another
question about the actors – when I first rented Grow Live
Monsters, from Hard Boiled in Chicago, the clerk asked me if
I knew if Tim Burton, the director of Pee Wee's Big Adventure,
Batman, et al, was in the movie, because his name was
in the credits, and he was originally from Detroit, but no one
could spot him. Was it the Hollywood Tim Burton or someone else
with the same name? That’s
pretty funny -- no my Tim Burton is a different Tim Burton --
How
did the video release come about? Were those Plan 9 From
Outer Space clips added? And some of those effects look
digital . . . were those added then as well? In
1995, a boxed set of of our music came out: Destroy All Monsters
1974-1976 (Ecstatic Peace/Father Yod). That release inspired
us to do some reunion gigs at the same time i reissued the art
zines we did in the 70s as the book: Destroy All Monsters: Geisha
This. So i thought i would put parts of these films out before
they deteriorated further -- I had about twenty 400’ reels
of super 8 mm and one reel of 16 mm and just edited scenes out
of them -- they were reshot with a large VHS camera while being
projected, so the quality isn’t that good --
I
had this friend Mog that began a noise band called Princess
Dragonmom, he began a small production video studio called Chrome
Bumper. He did some video for the Boredoms and was familiar
with DAM -- Quigly, a technician at the studio did most of the
work with me. It was a bare-bones operation.
The
clips (like the Ed Wood) were added in the studio -- it was
hard to resist the digital gimmicks -- being in a studio for
the first time, i wanted to see what could be done -- it would
be edited completely differently today. There are electronic
ways of doing transfers i didn’t know about at the time
and i was trying to keep the film under an hour. DAP and Forced
Exposure distributed most of these items.
Dude, is that you sitting cross-legged, shirtless, smoking
a joint and performing occult rituals? That’s
Leo Pennock, a friend from high school. He was also in ELMO
THE GEEK. The pentagram ritual was filmed in my bedroom under
red lights. I broke out all my occult books.
Sometimes
I think every horror movie made since the Sharon Tate murders
refers to it, often overtly but also covertly. Yours too, sometimes
overtly. Just out of curiosity, did you see Thou Shalt Not
Kill, Except . . ., featuring a thrill kill cult led by
a Manson-type figure played by Sam Raimi? It was filmed in the
Detroit area. No
-- i never saw that film but will try and check it out -- the
Manson family has entered the realm of myth -- it was a symbolic
end to the 1960s -- the dark side of the hippie movement, murders
following the “roads of excess” -- he was the modern
Rasputin -- since Manson there’s been this cult status
surrounding all serial killers, people follow them like sport
stars.
I
can probably guess a few, such as Jack Smith, but what are some
of your favorite filmmakers and films? (Both underground and
aboveground, as applicable.) I’ll try and do
this briefly, but there is so much.... first, the great silent
films: Ben Hur, Broken Blossoms, Greed, The Wedding March, Merry
Widow -- everything Von Stroheim did -- he’s the shits,
the deep devil-god of film -- just beautiful mad visions --
Melies is great, a tremendous innovator right at the beginning
-- Carl Dreyer films, Murnau’s FAUST, Cocteau’s
BLOOD OF A POET, recently i saw AELITA QUEEN OF MARS, a rediscovered
Soviet masterpiece which surfaced from Stalin’s film vaults,
it has amazingly designed costumes and sets -- art deco on acid
-- it came out a few years before METROPOLIS but seems to have
inspired it.
One
of my all-time favorites is Von Sternberg’s THE SCARLET
EMPRESS (1934) -- one of the most intense decadent visual works
-- watching it can induce a trance -- also James Whale's THE
BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN, one of the best written, acted and designed
horror films.
Most of Akira Kurosawa
and Sergio Leone’s films are incredible -- with Leone
the story lines are kinda blurry, but his imagination explodes
on screen -- Morricone’s music is brilliant -- just magic
--music telling the story -- they usually worked out the music
way before the filming began -- few directors get the importance
of it -- Scorsese gets it -- but the story telling usually wins
out in the end.
I
probably soaked up the most from Jack Smith -- he had this unearthly,
beautiful imagination -- living every moment in this ornamental
fairyland vision he created... his approach and comic timing
was brilliant. Jack always promoted the MARIA MONTEZ films as
the Rosetta Stone of camp classics. They’ve become difficult
films to locate but I’ve been searching them out.
In
the early 70s i tried to catch all the Warhol and John Waters
releases -- I was a great fan of Warhol’s -- his stuff
was so plain and simple, just deadpan, flat and boring technique,
but they are mesmerizing films that you can’t stop watching...
Everything about those films were crappy except “the superstars”
-- everything seemed so fantastic in that raw New York City
world. I even began to admire all the bad lighting, poor dubbing,
and miscues -- Warhol exposed the rough edges, making deconstructed
movies that just seemed to expose more about what film is truly
about -- They were great comedies that were funny just by being
truthful.
I
would also list Kenneth Anger’s INAUGURATION OF THE PLEASUREDOME,
Bunuel’s VIRDIANA & UN CHIEN ANDALOU, Fellini’s
JULIET OF THE SPIRITS... Maya Deren’s MESHES OF THE AFTERNOON,
the Harry Smith animations... there’s a lot of great underground
films, but they rarely are seen -- Mystic Video had been putting
some amazing things out, but they seem to be in sleep mode lately.
I
recently saw the Incredible String Band documentary BE GLAD
FOR THE SONG HAS NO ENDING, and it's one of the most beautiful
60s film recordings of any band -- SUN RA: A JOYFUL NOISE is
another good one.
Benjamin
Christensen’s HAXAN is a great bizarre documentary about
the history of witchcraft done in 1922. Louis Feuillade’s
classic FANTOMAS series was a silent serial that made a big
impression with the surrealists, a lavish 2 volume French DV
set is available. I was gifted a copy last year from Ben Schot,
a Dutch artist and publisher, and produced FANTOMASH, a half-hour
compilation with a Monster Island soundtrack.
I'd
also like to recommend DEATH BED: THE BED THAT EATS, written
and directed by George Barry -- a recently discovered, obscure
70s cult film... a very odd piece of horror; a twisted black-arts
fairytale, with an Oscar
Wilde sensibility -- it was just released by Cult Epics (www.cultepics.com)
These guys also released Walerian Borowczyk's lowbrow masterpiece
: THE BEAST, a very strange work of Kafkaesque porn-art -- if
you have the time and stomach, I'd recommend watching both as
a kind of "Turkish Delight" double-feature...
CARY
LOREN FILMOGRAPHY
Elmo
the Geek 1972 (color super 8 mm)
High School 1971-1973 (color 8mm and super 8mm)
Silver Coffins of Venus 1973 (color super 8)
Iconoclastic Holocaustic Age of the Lobster and Return of the
Spiders 1972-1974 (color and black and white
8 mm)
The 9th Day 1974-1975 (color super 8)
The Horror of Beatnik Beach 1975 ( color super
8)
The Church of Anthrax 1974-1975 (color and black
and white super 8)
Blood of God 1974-1976 ( color and black and
white 16mm)
Video
Releases:
Grow Live Monsters 1995 (selections from filmwork)
Shake a Lizard Tail or Rust-belt Rump 1996
Clear Day 1996
Strange Frut: Detroit Culture part 1 1998
Kick Out the Jams Motherfucker! the MC5 Live! 1999
(with Leni Sinclair)
DVD
(limited editions)
The Candy Golom 2001
Fantomash 2002
Fear Finder 2002- 2003
Bands Against Bush: Monster Island and THTX 2003
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